"A revolution almost invariably is a carnival... but anybody who wasn't befuddled by the romanticism could see that what is coming is fascism of the sandals." - Dr. Abbas Milani [00:10:10]
"If I had to go back I would absolutely give up my right to speak directly about Marxism for the right of Iranian Jews to live in more freedom than they had ever been." - Dr. Abbas Milani [00:17:17]
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"You have to understand Iran as essentially a battle between modernity and its foes." - Dr. Abbas Milani [00:23:15]
"The Iranian woman organized what I think is the most successful civil disobedient movement of the last 50 years after the African-American movement in America." - Dr. Abbas Milani [00:30:24]
"Can you imagine somebody in the American academia writing about American politics and not knowing English, and getting tenured... but in Iran, it can. Anybody can talk about Iran and write about Iran." - Dr. Abbas Milani [00:47:02]
"I don't believe this Eurocentric view that modernity began in the West. That's to me nonsense... Modernity, Renaissance means rebirth." - Dr. Abbas Milani [00:54:33]
Speakers & Credentials
Shiv Patel: Second-year MBA student and member of the Chicago Forum Student Advisory Board.
Dr. Abbas Milani: Hamid and Christina Moghadam Director of Iranian Studies at Stanford University, Co-founding Director of the Iran Democracy Project, and Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution. An authoritative historian of modern Iran, former political prisoner, and leading scholar on US-Iran relations.
Professor Tom Ginsburg: Faculty Director of the Chicago Forum for Free Inquiry and Expression, and Leo Spitz Distinguished Service Professor of International Law at the University of Chicago. Previously served as a consultant providing legal advice to governments and international organizations, including the Iran-US claims tribunal.
1. Executive Summary
The current geopolitical friction between the United States and Iran is deeply rooted in the ideological foundations of the 1979 Iranian Revolution, which Dr. Milani categorizes as a fundamental clash between modernity and anti-modernity.
Prior to the revolution, the Shah's regime completely misidentified its primary threats, focusing on leftists and Mossadeghists while fatally underestimating the organizational prowess and extremist intentions of the clergy.
The Islamic Republic's hostility toward the US and Israel is not a standard geopolitical posture but a structural necessity established by Ayatollah Khomeini, who strategically merged anti-imperialist rhetoric with deep-seated anti-modernism to capture the support of the global left.
US policy toward Iran over the last 50 years has been plagued by wild inconsistencies, alternating rapidly between appeasement, abandonment, and adversarial rhetoric without a cohesive, long-term strategic vision since the Nixon administration.
The internal sociopolitical landscape of Iran is highly unstable, characterized by brutal regime suppression funded by rentier economics, contrasted against a populace—led largely by women—executing one of the most significant civil disobedience movements in modern history.
Dr. Milani vehemently rejects the notion of external military intervention or war, instead advocating for structural support of Iranian citizens through technological empowerment (e.g., Starlink) and the targeted financial crippling of the regime and its proxy networks.
The history of Iranian modernity is vastly misunderstood by Western academia, which suffers from deep Eurocentric bias and "Orientalism," ignoring Iran's profound, 12,000-year historical precedent of humanism, feminism, and institutional advancement that far predates Western equivalents.
The Berkeley Years: Activism and Translating the West [00:02:42]
Dr. Milani arrived at UC Berkeley in 1964 as a highly sheltered 15.5-year-old from a bourgeois Iranian upbringing [00:04:31].
He was instantly thrust into the cultural revolution of the era, witnessing Mario Savio lead the Free Speech Movement student demonstrations upon his arrival [00:04:31].
The true awakening to the reality of American democratic society occurred 3 years later when he saw Mario Savio working as a mundane busboy in a Berkeley bar, illustrating the stark contrast between Iranian authoritarianism and Western civil liberties [00:04:51].
During this period, Milani translated Leszek Kołakowski's massive three-volume Main Currents of Marxism, while his ex-wife translated Saul Bellow's Herzog exactly 45 years ago [00:03:25].
He joined a small, Maoist anti-Shah group but operated covertly out of fear of SAVAK (the Shah's secret police), eventually returning to Iran in 1975 to teach at the National University and Tehran University [00:05:07].
Evin Prison & The Accidental University of Future Rulers [00:06:07]
In 1976, Milani was arrested for his Marxist affiliations and spent a year in prison, 6 months of which were inside the notorious Evin Prison [00:06:07].
His cell block inadvertently acted as a holding pen for almost the entire future leadership of the Islamic Republic—including figures like Montazeri, Taleghani, Rafsanjani, and Kani (with Khomeini being the sole exception due to exile) [00:06:16].
Despite being highly radicalized, precisely 2.5 years before the revolution, not a single one of these clerics harbored any realistic dream or belief that they would overthrow the Shah and rule Iran within a few short years [00:07:21].
Milani notes that Mahmoud Taleghani was profoundly open-minded, prompting Milani to write about him extensively later in his book Seymour, recognizing that not all clerics shared the same totalitarian vision at the time [00:07:06].
Strategic Blindness: How the Shah and Intelligence Agencies Missed the Revolution [00:08:00]
The Shah's regime suffered from a fatal misallocation of threat perception; they believed their primary enemies were the relatively small leftist factions and the larger, but non-threatening, Mossadeghists [00:08:00].
The Shah literally viewed the conservative clergy as his allies in his fight against communism. To illustrate this blindness: 2.5 years before the revolution, SAVAK offered detained clerics a deal where they would be released if they simply signed a petition promising to criticize the left as much as they criticized the regime. Several future leaders signed it and walked free [00:08:23].
The intelligence failure was absolute and global: The CIA, British Intelligence, the Soviets, and Mossad all entirely missed the impending clerical takeover, heavily discounting the organizational threat of Quranic schools [00:09:05].
Milani argues this specific chasm between ground reality and the Shah's delusional perception of his enemies is the foundational key to understanding why the revolution succeeded [00:09:28].
The "Fascism of the Sandals" & Carter's Historical Blunder [00:10:28]
While many partook in the "riotous joys of a carnival" during the protests, pragmatic observers realized that what was replacing the Shah was far worse [00:10:10].
Gholam-Hossein Sadighi, the father of modern sociology in Iran and a devout Mossadegh supporter who had previously refused all government posts, recognized this threat. On the eve of the revolution, he agreed to form a cabinet to save Iran from what he deemed the "coming fascism of the sandals" [00:10:28].
Sadighi knew that keeping the Shah inside Iran was the only way to stabilize the state. Conversely, the US (under Jimmy Carter) and Prime Minister Shapour Bakhtiar inexplicably insisted the Shah flee the country, creating a power vacuum [00:11:22].
Milani notes Carter's profound contradictions: Carter's election literally improved Milani's life in prison immediately—torture practically stopped overnight, and prison guards provided soap for the first time [00:11:32]. Yet strategically, Carter "missed the boat," ending up implicitly deciding that Iran's future was better left to the Mullahs [00:12:24].
The Paradox of Freedom: Cultural Liberty vs. Political Repression [00:14:23]
Following the revolution, Milani was expelled from his university post alongside 40 out of 44 faculty members for simply writing statements opposing the regime's reintroduction of torture and "eye for an eye" penal codes [00:13:08].
Looking back, Milani regrets how the opposition (including himself) defined freedom entirely by their ability to explicitly criticize the Shah and promote Marxism [00:14:23].
He emphasizes that under the Shah, Iranian women, Baha'is, Sunnis, and Jews (who had lived in the region for 3,000 years) experienced more freedom and cultural flourishing than at any point before or since [00:15:08].
To illustrate the incredible cultural tolerance under the Shah, Milani notes that in 1975, a public gay marriage took place in Iran where the couple hired a flower-covered carriage, and one of the grooms was heavily connected to the Shah's court [00:17:52].
Furthermore, when police raided a gay bar to harass patrons, the Queen directly intervened, demanding the Shah reprimand the police and allow the citizens to enjoy themselves—a historical fact preserved in American archives [00:18:11].
Milani unequivocally states he would trade his political right to espouse Marxism for the cultural and civil rights the minorities enjoyed during that era [00:17:17].
Roots of the Conflict: Israel, the US, and Khomeini's Anti-Modernity [00:19:19]
The current perpetual conflict is entirely manufactured by Ayatollah Khomeini's specific ideology. Before him, the Shah maintained diplomatic ties with Israel while appropriately advocating for a Palestinian state [00:19:19].
Iran's current geopolitical blunders are staggering: they spent $70 billion and supplied 100,000 missiles to prop up the Assad regime and their proxy network, all of which Israel and its allies systematically dismantled while Iran was at its weakest [00:21:27].
The root of Khomeini's hatred was theoretically founded in the works of Sayyid Qutb (of the Muslim Brotherhood). A little-known fact excluded from major Western profiles is that Khomeini personally translated 4 books by Qutb [00:22:30].
Khomeini absorbed Qutb's narrative that modernity was a "Jewish-Christian trick." Consequently, modern Iranian history must be understood as an existential battle between the advocates of modernity and its absolute foes (the clergy) [00:23:15].
US Policy Failures: From Nixon's Strategy to Obama's Missed Opportunity [00:25:25]
The United States has failed to maintain a coherent strategy on Iran since Richard Nixon, who actively viewed Iran and Saudi Arabia as essential pillars of Middle Eastern security and armed the Shah accordingly (short of nuclear weapons) [00:25:25].
Since Nixon, American policy has been completely erratic: Carter wildly changed stances over a six-month period, and Reagan publicly vowed never to negotiate with terrorists while secretly selling them arms [00:25:25].
A massive historical failure occurred during the 2009 Green Movement. Michael McFaul, a key advisor and Milani's colleague, urged President Obama to strongly support the Iranian people as they were being slaughtered [00:27:05]. Obama refused to intervene solely to preserve the possibility of his nuclear deal [00:27:40].
While Milani supported the concept of a nuclear deal, he viewed Obama's framework as deeply flawed for ignoring human rights and proxy terrorism, yet equally views Trump's unilateral withdrawal as a misguided error that solved nothing [00:28:02].
The Lunatic Optimist: Women's Resistance & Regime Terror [00:30:24]
Famously dubbed a "lunatic optimist" by a former CIA desk head, Milani firmly believes that democratic change in Iran is inevitable, driven organically from within rather than imposed by Western military intervention [00:29:30].
He lauds the Iranian women's protest movement as the most successful civil disobedience operation of the last 50 years, second only to the American Civil Rights Movement [00:30:24].
Alarmingly, much of the global "left" and Western feminists betrayed this movement, actively refusing to support it and falsely smearing the women as CIA/Mossad creations [00:30:34].
The regime's desperation is evident. They currently target dissidents abroad, explicitly naming 400 individuals and sending SMS death/expropriation threats to citizens living in the US, Canada, and Europe [00:31:33]. Milani reminds the audience that the regime is still capable of murdering thousands of citizens in a mere 3-day span to hold onto power [00:32:02].
Deconstructing Marxism & The Evolution of the Hoover Institution [00:33:00]
Milani abandoned his Marxist roots upon realizing the inherent violence required to enforce the ideology. He notes Mao Zedong was willing to butcher 20 million people and Joseph Stalin was willing to murder 30 million people to force their societal visions [00:34:06].
In his intellectual journey, he translated Antonio Gramsci's State and Civil Society in 1980 and deeply explored the intersection of Marx and Freud (reading thinkers like Norman O. Brown) before realizing his entire thesis on Iranian society under the Shah was factually flawed [00:33:32].
He highlights the evolution of the Hoover Institution (where he works alongside Larry Diamond and Michael McFaul). Once an entirely right-wing think tank, Stanford University forced its academic integration, resulting in a current ideological makeup where 40% of the fellows are registered Democrats [00:34:48].
The Urban vs. Rural Modernization Debate [00:36:02]
Responding to an audience member who criticized the Pahlavi regime for causing rural poverty and destroying traditional landscapes, Milani fiercely dismantled the romanticization of feudalism [00:38:00].
He views the shift from rural squalor to urban life as the fundamental hallmark of global modernity. Under the Pahlavis, Iran's rural population dropped from 80% to 40%, and currently sits at 20% [00:38:50].
Milani openly debated philosophers like Daryush Shayegan on this exact point, arguing that peasants romanticized by intellectuals would much rather have modern infrastructure than manually draw water from wells [00:39:40].
Crucially, the Pahlavi era brought women out of literal domestic confinement. Reza Shah violently suppressed the clergy to ensure women could attend schools and literally forced structural changes in architecture so houses would have windows looking outward to the street [00:40:26].
The Master Manipulator: Khomeini's Co-opting of Anti-Imperialism [00:41:26]
Ayatollah Khomeini was a political genius, fully aware of what language would trick Western leftists into supporting him [00:42:04].
Khomeini first gained national fame by protesting two things: Women's right to vote, and a capitulation law giving US military advisors 24/7 immunity in Iran (a topic Milani covered extensively in his book The Persian Sphinx) [00:43:06]. By elevating the latter, he cloaked his xenophobia in the globally appealing language of "anti-imperialism" [00:43:52].
Despite Khomeini laying out his exact totalitarian blueprint in his 1971 book (where he explicitly stated his mandate was divine and whoever opposed his Sharia law was corrupt), the Shah's regime banned the book instead of weaponizing it as a warning to the populace [00:45:49].
Western Orientalism and the Myth of a "Sexy" Iranian History [00:46:43]
Dr. Milani excoriates Western academia and journalism for a pervasive, subtle racism regarding Iran. He points out that pundits who don't read or speak a word of Persian are heavily published and tenured on Iranian topics—a leniency that would never be tolerated in the study of American or European history [00:47:02].
He criticizes Stephen Kinzer's famous account of the 1953 coup (All the Shah's Men), noting it relies almost exclusively on English CIA documents without consulting primary Persian sources [00:47:32].
He quotes a colleague who justified shifting his focus to Iran simply because the subject was "sexy," trivializing a profound culture [00:49:37].
Contrary to the common citation of a 3,000-year history, anthropological discoveries regarding the Elam culture indicate that Iranian civilization actually spans 12,000 years, giving the world its first monotheistic religion and profound architectural traditions [00:48:42].
Actionable Alternatives to War & Regime Suppression [00:50:48]
While Milani completely rejects military invasion to topple the regime, he outlines aggressive asymmetrical actions the West must take to aid Iranian democrats [00:50:48].
The US must immediately break the regime's digital iron hold by deploying Starlink systems across the country [00:51:06].
The Islamic Republic currently relies on rentier economics to fund foreign proxy mercenaries like the Hashd al-Shaabi, Kata'ib Hezbollah, Zainabiyoun, and Fatemiyoun, who are paraded in Iranian streets to terrorize locals [00:52:09]. The West must aggressively freeze their assets.
It is a moral catastrophe that Iran sits on the UN Women's Rights group, and equally disastrous that the US is actively attempting to deport 5,000 of the brightest Iranian students back to the regime's control, completely undercutting the very demographic destined to eventually topple the Mullahs [00:52:46].
Rejecting the deeply Eurocentric view that modernity was invented in the West, Milani traces Iranian modernity back to between the 9th and 14th centuries, a topic he explored in his book Lost Wisdom [00:54:33].
The poet Saadi wrote profoundly on humanism 200 years before the concept ever reached Western political discourse [00:55:31].
Similarly, Abolfazl Beyhaqi established brilliant works of historiography 900 years ago [00:55:56], and the epic Vis and Ramin features assertive, complex female characters that predate and outshine Western staples like Madame Bovary [00:57:02].
Iran's ancient monotheism (Zoroastrianism) directly inspired Friedrich Nietzsche to write one of his most important books (Thus Spoke Zarathustra), proving Iran's deep foundational role in global philosophy [00:49:09].
170 years ago, the erudite poet Tahirih publicly tore off her veil to deliver a speech. The act of modern feminist assertion was so radically paradigm-shifting that an orthodox Babi man in the audience immediately slit his own throat in shock [00:57:46].
Milani concludes by citing Robert Byron's The Road to Oxiana, which asserts almost all "Islamic Architecture" is actually Iranian. Byron initially had to bribe guards just to look inside a mosque, but returned years later to find Reza Shah had violently, yet progressively, forced the mosques open to the public, setting Iran on an irreversible path toward its own native modernity [00:59:17].
The Reference Vault
4. Data & Figures
Data Point
Value
Context
Timestamp
Milani's Age of Arrival
15.5 years old
Age at which Dr. Milani arrived in Berkeley, California (1964).
The Carnival Phase of Revolutions vs. Fascist Reality: Revolutions initially manifest as romantic, jubilant "carnivals" that obscure the brutal ideologies waiting to seize the power vacuum. Milani warns that those swept up in the romanticism fail to see the "fascism of the sandals" moving in behind the scenes. [00:10:10]
Modernity vs. Anti-Modernity Paradigm: The ultimate lens through which to understand Iranian geopolitics over the last century. Rather than purely economic or religious, the struggle is structurally defined by the violent friction between factions striving for globalized modernization and clerical factions intent on returning to archaic fundamentalism. [00:23:15]
The Paradox of Dictatorial Freedom: A mental model contrasting political liberty against cultural liberty. Milani argues that under the Shah, intellectuals lacked the political freedom to publish Marxist texts, but society at large enjoyed massive cultural and civic freedom (religious tolerance, gay rights, women's rights). Opposing a regime solely for political restriction can inadvertently usher in a regime that destroys all cultural and civil freedoms. [00:14:23]
The Weaponization of Anti-Imperialism: The strategy by which religious extremists secure the backing of the Western Left. By vocally opposing American military presence and capitalism, authoritarians (like Khomeini) successfully trick progressives into ignoring the regime's horrific human rights abuses against women and minorities. [00:43:52]
The Eurocentric Modernity Fallacy: The flawed academic assumption that "modernity" and "humanism" are distinctly Western inventions. Milani posits that true intellectual rigor requires acknowledging that non-Western cultures (like 9th-14th century Iran) developed robust frameworks of individualism, feminism, and historical science centuries before the European Renaissance. [00:54:33]
6. Anecdotes
The Fall of the Protest Leader: To illustrate the grounding reality of American capitalism and democracy, Milani recounted his shock at watching Mario Savio lead history-altering student demonstrations at Berkeley, only to see him working as a mundane busboy in a bar three years later—a stark contrast to the permanent dictatorial figures of Iran. [00:04:51]
Carter's Bar of Soap: To show how hyper-sensitive the Iranian prison system was to US politics, Milani noted that the exact day Jimmy Carter was elected, the torture at Evin prison practically stopped, and the guards miraculously provided soap for the prisoners' bathroom visits. [00:11:32]
The 1975 Flower Carriage Gay Marriage: To demonstrate the vast cultural liberty under the Shah, Milani detailed a public gay marriage in 1975 where the couple paraded through the streets in a carriage covered in flowers. When police later raided a gay bar, the Queen directly commanded the Shah to call off the police and let the citizens enjoy themselves. [00:17:52]
SAVAK's Blind Ultimatum: Showcasing the Shah's intelligence failure, SAVAK agents offered imprisoned clerics a chance at freedom 2.5 years before the revolution, requiring only that they sign a paper promising to criticize the Marxists as much as they criticized the Shah. The clerics easily signed it and walked free to orchestrate the government's downfall. [00:08:23]
The Slit Throat of the Shocked Babi: Demonstrating the radical nature of native Iranian feminism, Milani recounted the story of Tahirih, an erudite female poet who, 170 years ago, tore off her veil to address a crowd. The violation of conservative norms was so intense that an orthodox male reformer (a Babi) in the audience literally slit his own throat in shock. [00:57:46]
Bribing the Guards for Modernity: Milani cited historian Robert Byron, who initially had to bribe religious guards just to peer inside a historic Iranian mosque. Years later, Byron returned to find that Reza Shah had forcefully stripped the clergy of this gatekeeping power, permanently opening the architectural marvels to the public. [00:59:17]
7. References & Recommendations
People
Ayatollah Khomeini: The mastermind of the 1979 Islamic Revolution; co-opted Western leftist support via anti-imperialist rhetoric while strictly executing an anti-modern, Sharia-bound vision. [00:43:52]
Reza Shah Pahlavi: The monarch who brutally but effectively forced structural modernization upon Iran, breaking clerical power to bring women into the public sphere. [00:40:26]
Gholam-Hossein Sadighi: Father of modern Iranian sociology who futilely attempted to form a last-minute cabinet to stop the clerical takeover. [00:10:28]
Sayyid Qutb: Leading theoretician of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood whose anti-modernity books were directly translated by Khomeini. [00:22:30]
Saadi: 13th-century Iranian poet who codified profound humanistic principles centuries before the European Renaissance. [00:55:31]
Abolfazl Beyhaqi: 11th-century Iranian historian cited by Milani to prove that rigorous historical science was thriving in Iran 900 years ago. [00:55:56]
Mario Savio: Key member of the Berkeley Free Speech Movement whose later mundane employment shocked a young Milani. [00:04:31]
Friedrich Nietzsche: Famed German philosopher whose work was heavily inspired by Zoroastrianism (Iran's first monotheistic religion), underscoring Iran's profound influence on global philosophy. [00:49:09]
Antonio Gramsci: Italian Marxist philosopher whose work (State and Civil Society) Milani translated in 1980 while trying to reconcile his leftist views. [00:33:32]
Norman O. Brown: American thinker referenced by Milani when discussing his attempts to reconcile Marx and Freud. [00:33:50]
Bernard Lewis: Western historian noted as "no friend of Iran," yet cited by Milani to confirm that historically, Jews had no healthier place to live than Iran. [00:20:14]
Michael McFaul & Larry Diamond: Elite political scientists at the Hoover Institution; McFaul unsuccessfully urged Obama to support the Green Movement protests. [00:27:05]
Daryush Shayegan: Prominent philosopher with whom Milani debated regarding the romanticization of rural feudalism versus urban modernity. [00:39:40]
Books & Publications
Main Currents of Marxism by Leszek Kołakowski: The definitive three-volume critique of Marxism that Milani translated into Persian. [00:03:25]
State and Civil Society by Antonio Gramsci: Translated by Milani in 1980 during his Marxist period. [00:33:32]
Herzog by Saul Bellow: Translated by Milani's ex-wife 45 years ago, showcasing the literary environment of their early Berkeley days. [00:03:25]
Islamic Government (1971) by Ayatollah Khomeini: The banned blueprint detailing Khomeini's exact intent to enforce strict Sharia law and eliminate opponents, which the Shah foolishly hid rather than publicized. [00:45:49]
Seymour by Dr. Abbas Milani: A book documenting the life of Mahmoud Taleghani, the open-minded cleric Milani shared a prison block with. [00:07:06]
The Persian Sphinx by Dr. Abbas Milani: Milani's detailed biographical work where he extensively covered the Shah's capitulation laws granting US forces immunity. [00:43:38]
Lost Wisdom by Dr. Abbas Milani: A book exploring the roots of Iranian modernity between the 9th and 14th centuries. [00:54:42]
Vis and Ramin: An ancient Persian epic featuring incredibly assertive female characters that outshine modern Western equivalents like Madame Bovary. [00:57:02]
The Road to Oxiana by Robert Byron: Celebrated architectural travelogue confirming that almost all iconic "Islamic" architecture is inherently Iranian. [00:59:17]
All the Shah's Men by Stephen Kinzer (Implied): Criticized by Milani as a popular but deeply flawed journalistic account of the 1953 coup written by an author who cannot read primary Persian sources. [00:47:32]
Geopolitical Institutions & Factions
SAVAK: The Shah's secret police, entirely blinded by their focus on Marxist threats while ignoring the organizing power of the clergy. [00:08:23]
The Babis (Babism): An early religious reform movement in Iran. A conservative member famously slit his throat in shock when the poet Tahirih unveiled herself in public 170 years ago. [00:57:46]
Hashd al-Shaabi, Kata'ib Hezbollah, Zainabiyoun, Fatemiyoun: Violent foreign mercenary groups entirely funded by Iranian rentier economics, currently used to suppress and terrorize the domestic Iranian populace. [00:52:09]
8. The Bottomline (by AI)
The geopolitical crisis emanating from Iran is not merely a regional dispute, but the violent manifestation of a century-long, existential war between an organic, historically progressive Iranian populace and a hijacked, radically anti-modern clerical regime. Western policymakers and academics must completely abandon the racist, Eurocentric romanticization of the 1979 revolution and recognize that the Islamic Republic is an occupying force entirely dependent on digital isolation and rentier-funded proxy terror. To catalyze inevitable democratic collapse from within, the West must immediately cease entertaining military invasions, freeze the financial assets funding the proxy networks, provide unrestricted satellite internet (Starlink) to the citizens, and actively protect the diaspora of Iranian students who represent the intellectual vanguard of the impending, women-led revolution.
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Evin Prison Stint
6 months
Duration Milani was held specifically in Evin Prison alongside the future rulers of the Islamic Republic.